cruiscin_lan (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
cruiscin_lan) wrote2010-02-17 11:16 pm
cruiscin_lan) wrote2010-02-17 11:16 pm
Using Polls for Feedback on Fic
EDITED TO ADD: I went back and found the link to the post that made me decide to try this in the first place: I wish that writers left polls at the end of their work by ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
gaudinight.
Before I start rambling, allow me to state that nothing I have to say is at all definitive or even remotely scientific. While I pretty much fail at research methods forever, at least I can offer a few reasons why:
Still, while it might not be useful to examine the results I've gotten so far by using feedback polls, it's certainly interesting, and perhaps someone with a better mind for this sort of thing can take the ball and run with it, so to speak.
I. Reasons to use polls.
One reason to use polls is to find out how many people might actually be reading your fic. LJ Stats can give you an idea of how many people clicked the fic, but unless they leave a comment there's really no way of knowing whether they actually read it or whether they backbuttoned without finishing. By using polls, you can presumably get a number of how many people read a particular story, at the very least.
I'm kind of surprised how the poll numbers compare to comment numbers. The best example is probably this story. Out of fifty-five comments, there are twenty-five unique reviews, but as of right now ninety-nine people have responded to the poll. When I checked that same poll a month after it was posted, there were about seventy poll responses, although you'll just have to take my word for that since I forgot to screencap it or something for posterity.
What this may show is that a) most readers are more comfortable responding to a poll than responding via comment and b) people are especially more comfortable responding to a poll when the fic is no longer "new." This would probably require a better investigation in order to come up with more reliable results.
But this leads to the the second reason I started to use polls - many readers are just more comfortable leaving feedback via polls than they are leaving comments. From what I've read and heard, there are many, many, many reasons for this. And, because I love receiving any and all kinds of feedback, I thought that providing polls might make it easier for readers to respond.
I think it's working.
II. Poll options.
In his long-ass book* Everyone Can Write, Peter Elbow describes four different kinds of audience, and three different kinds of response. The map looks a little like this:
The stars simply mark the intersections on the map (because I am not html-savvy enough to recreate the map exactly as it appears in the book). According to Elbow, ideally a writer should be all over the map in terms of audience and response. But while Elbow is thinking in terms of writing in and for the classroom, I would posit that it fits in pretty well with writing fanfiction too, except I'd probably arrange the "audience" column in reverse. While this might not be entirely accurate, I believe most fanfic authors write with themselves as the primary audience. Then comes the audience of allies - friendly betas, flist members - and the audience of peers. I'm not quite sure how the audience with authority fits into this model, because fanfiction is written for primarily entertainment and enjoyment, and not evaluation.
At any rate, more relevant here than the types of audience are the types of responses that we receive on our stories. At the archives and sites I'm familiar with, response is received through comments, hit counts, or private emails, and the community aspect of many social networking sites makes it hard to categorize some types of feedback. For the most part, I would equate concrit with "evaluative feedback," and lump most other responses ("I loved this!/Good job!/Thanks for sharing!") into "nonevaluative feedback."
I think anyone who's posted anything on the internet knows what "sharing, no response" feels like sometimes.
Moving on - I think of these feedback polls as occupying some strange space between the "nonevaluative feedback" and "no response" columns. It requires very little effort on the part of the reader; one of the options I consistently include is "read it" which provides a way of keeping more detailed stats, simply testing out to see who didn't back button right away. The other consistent option I use is "liked it," which is closer to the "nonevaluative feedback" column.
Another option I used to include "review in the comments," which I've started to phase out because personally I think it's redundant most of the time.
A recent addition to the poll has been the option "didn't like it." I added that option first to a fic that dealt with mature themes, because I can understand being intrigued by the story but not liking the execution, or vice versa. Since I started including the "didn't like it option," it's been marked at least twice.
The only problem with "didn't like it"? I don't know why. What exactly didn't they like about the stories? Since it's a response to a poll, there's no dialogue between reader and author as to what issues in the fic might need to be addressed. But while I'm boggled by this response, as a reader I might appreciate the option to be honest without facing the possibility of confrontation via commenting or email.
I also include silly options in polls. The response they get is varied.
All feedback polls I make are check box polls, because a) it allows readers to choose more than one option, in case one doesn't adequately express their response and b) I can make stupid ticky box jokes.
III. Personal observations
Initially I had reservations about using polls, and sometimes I still do. A part of me fears that using them might come across as self-important, or as treating readers as little more than numbers, I'm not sure. Still, I've never gotten a negative response to the polls themselves (just the stories they accompany). In fact, several people have told me that they think they're a good idea, or interesting at least, and now if I forget to post a poll, at least one or two commenters will be quick to point it out.
IV. Questions?
I know I've got 'em.
For authors: Would you try using polls to help encourage reader response? Why or why not?
For readers: Would you use polls after reading? Why or why not?
What improvements would you suggest for those who might want to use polls?
What was the most awesome dinosaur ever, as rated by science?
Is receiving feedback via poll as satisfactory as receiving feedback in other ways? Why or why not?
And, hot damn, I'm too used to doing these now.
[Poll #1526944]
*Okay, it's not really that long. It's not quite 500 pages and actually if you're interested in writing pedagogy, it's an engaging read. It's just that I barely have enough attention span to finish a sen
gaudinight.Before I start rambling, allow me to state that nothing I have to say is at all definitive or even remotely scientific. While I pretty much fail at research methods forever, at least I can offer a few reasons why:
- I do not always remember to include polls.
- My polling options are not always consistent.
- My polling options are quite often silly (i.e. remember that time
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
metafandom told me I was good-looking?).
Still, while it might not be useful to examine the results I've gotten so far by using feedback polls, it's certainly interesting, and perhaps someone with a better mind for this sort of thing can take the ball and run with it, so to speak.
I. Reasons to use polls.
One reason to use polls is to find out how many people might actually be reading your fic. LJ Stats can give you an idea of how many people clicked the fic, but unless they leave a comment there's really no way of knowing whether they actually read it or whether they backbuttoned without finishing. By using polls, you can presumably get a number of how many people read a particular story, at the very least.
I'm kind of surprised how the poll numbers compare to comment numbers. The best example is probably this story. Out of fifty-five comments, there are twenty-five unique reviews, but as of right now ninety-nine people have responded to the poll. When I checked that same poll a month after it was posted, there were about seventy poll responses, although you'll just have to take my word for that since I forgot to screencap it or something for posterity.
What this may show is that a) most readers are more comfortable responding to a poll than responding via comment and b) people are especially more comfortable responding to a poll when the fic is no longer "new." This would probably require a better investigation in order to come up with more reliable results.
But this leads to the the second reason I started to use polls - many readers are just more comfortable leaving feedback via polls than they are leaving comments. From what I've read and heard, there are many, many, many reasons for this. And, because I love receiving any and all kinds of feedback, I thought that providing polls might make it easier for readers to respond.
I think it's working.
II. Poll options.
In his long-ass book* Everyone Can Write, Peter Elbow describes four different kinds of audience, and three different kinds of response. The map looks a little like this:
| Sharing, but no response | Response, but no criticism or evaluation | Criticism or evaluation | |
| Audience with authority, eg., teachers, editors, supervisors, employers | |||
| Audience of peers | |||
| Audience of allies - readers who particularly care for the writer | |||
| Audience of self alone - private writing |
The stars simply mark the intersections on the map (because I am not html-savvy enough to recreate the map exactly as it appears in the book). According to Elbow, ideally a writer should be all over the map in terms of audience and response. But while Elbow is thinking in terms of writing in and for the classroom, I would posit that it fits in pretty well with writing fanfiction too, except I'd probably arrange the "audience" column in reverse. While this might not be entirely accurate, I believe most fanfic authors write with themselves as the primary audience. Then comes the audience of allies - friendly betas, flist members - and the audience of peers. I'm not quite sure how the audience with authority fits into this model, because fanfiction is written for primarily entertainment and enjoyment, and not evaluation.
At any rate, more relevant here than the types of audience are the types of responses that we receive on our stories. At the archives and sites I'm familiar with, response is received through comments, hit counts, or private emails, and the community aspect of many social networking sites makes it hard to categorize some types of feedback. For the most part, I would equate concrit with "evaluative feedback," and lump most other responses ("I loved this!/Good job!/Thanks for sharing!") into "nonevaluative feedback."
I think anyone who's posted anything on the internet knows what "sharing, no response" feels like sometimes.
Moving on - I think of these feedback polls as occupying some strange space between the "nonevaluative feedback" and "no response" columns. It requires very little effort on the part of the reader; one of the options I consistently include is "read it" which provides a way of keeping more detailed stats, simply testing out to see who didn't back button right away. The other consistent option I use is "liked it," which is closer to the "nonevaluative feedback" column.
Another option I used to include "review in the comments," which I've started to phase out because personally I think it's redundant most of the time.
A recent addition to the poll has been the option "didn't like it." I added that option first to a fic that dealt with mature themes, because I can understand being intrigued by the story but not liking the execution, or vice versa. Since I started including the "didn't like it option," it's been marked at least twice.
The only problem with "didn't like it"? I don't know why. What exactly didn't they like about the stories? Since it's a response to a poll, there's no dialogue between reader and author as to what issues in the fic might need to be addressed. But while I'm boggled by this response, as a reader I might appreciate the option to be honest without facing the possibility of confrontation via commenting or email.
I also include silly options in polls. The response they get is varied.
All feedback polls I make are check box polls, because a) it allows readers to choose more than one option, in case one doesn't adequately express their response and b) I can make stupid ticky box jokes.
III. Personal observations
Initially I had reservations about using polls, and sometimes I still do. A part of me fears that using them might come across as self-important, or as treating readers as little more than numbers, I'm not sure. Still, I've never gotten a negative response to the polls themselves (just the stories they accompany). In fact, several people have told me that they think they're a good idea, or interesting at least, and now if I forget to post a poll, at least one or two commenters will be quick to point it out.
IV. Questions?
I know I've got 'em.
And, hot damn, I'm too used to doing these now.
[Poll #1526944]
*Okay, it's not really that long. It's not quite 500 pages and actually if you're interested in writing pedagogy, it's an engaging read. It's just that I barely have enough attention span to finish a sen
no subject
And, well, the other problem I keep hitting up against is knowledge of other fandoms. If I get ten reviews on LJ, I think I came out pretty well. If my roommate does, she gets pretty annoyed. But I'm in Heroes and she's in HP, and even though I can rationalize that size of a fandom matters, I think there's also just a lack of commenting culture in certain fandoms. Polls would probably help fix that, to a certain extent, but sometimes I wonder if it's just how things are.
I would still very much like to implement them, though. I think everyone wants to know if they are being read, particularly beyond the obligation of friendship. I think real reviews can never really be replaced and will always be much more satisfying -- it's always great to know that a specific concern you had was resolved in a way readers like, or that they got a jokey detail -- but even a thumbs up/thumbs down system would, IMO, be nice to have.
Personally, I think I would be quite likely to reply to someone's poll. I actually long for the old, old days of fanfiction.net, when there was a star ratings system. I routinely voted in it and used it as a metric for finding new stories. These days, reviews alone are misleading and incomplete, IMO, when you get them at all. Recs and awards are similarly so, but with LJ polls I don't really think we'd get a solution.
I'm not quite sure how the audience with authority fits into this model, because fanfiction is written for primarily entertainment and enjoyment, and not evaluation.
Possibly exchanges? I think they may represent a limbo between an audience of friends and an authoritative audience. You can't be 100% sure it is a friend you are writing for (unless you cheat), and you are writing to fulfill criteria set by an external source.
What was the most awesome dinosaur ever, as rated by science?
Archeopteryx. Clearly.
no subject
This is really what gets me. I'm really surprised that any comments about the polls themselves have been overwhelmingly positive, and I've never heard from anyone that they think they're a bad idea. I'm suspicious that nearly everyone really hates them, and they're simply a silent majority...
I also worried about the anonymity aspect... It also has the problem of only working for people who have log ins...
I know when I read something, I tend to check out the comments first to see what sort of response the fic has already gotten as a way of gauging whether or not I might like it; that's why I haven't set the polls so that only I can see them. I still have anon commenting turned on, though, so if someone ever felt they really needed to tell me how much my fic sucked, they can (this is not something I typically advertise, though. Maybe I should).
the other problem I keep hitting up against is knowledge of other fandoms
I would love to see what sort of comparisons we could get by doing this in other fandoms.
I think everyone wants to know if they are being read, particularly beyond the obligation of friendship.
This, very much this. Sometimes it's fun to trace how they found your fic, too - seeing if you share relevant comms, or have friends in common, etc.
These days, reviews alone are misleading and incomplete, IMO, when you get them at all. Recs and awards are similarly so, but with LJ polls I don't really think we'd get a solution.
I don't know that there is a solution, but here we are, throwing spaghetti noodles at the wall to see if any stick anyway.
Possibly exchanges? I think they may represent a limbo between an audience of friends and an authoritative audience. You can't be 100% sure it is a friend you are writing for (unless you cheat), and you are writing to fulfill criteria set by an external source.
I think exchange fics and feedback have their own tag at metafandom now. Now you've got me all interested in trying to make correlations and whatnot...
Archeopteryx is pretty badass.
no subject
LOL, while I may be personally paranoid, I don't actually think that's the case. I mean, we consistently go through a round of rants and wanks on the subject of feedback in fandom, with readers getting berated and guilt tripped. That is, if fandom isn't on a tear about how everyone needs to be more honest and how the cult of nice destroys the artistic integrity of our porn. Something as simple as a poll, eliminating the majority of that baggage... I think it's nice, and I think a lot of other people probably genuinely do as well.
I tend to check out the comments first to see what sort of response the fic has already gotten as a way of gauging whether or not I might like it
I'm sort of the opposite, since I tend to find that others' opinions make me unpleasantly reactionary, but just having the poll up for people to see if they aren't logged in is a pretty good idea. It also feels more honest than awards which... yeah, I used to use (back in the 90s) as reliable ways to find the best of the best, and now I really mostly ignore.
I would love to see what sort of comparisons we could get by doing this in other fandoms.
I could always ask my roommate to test the waters of the idea over in HP.
BTW, I'm sort of curious on how you are doing polls for multi-part fics. I sort of break some fics up arbitrarily when posting them, rather than by constructed chapters, so while it would seem odd to only put a poll at the end (then you get little measure of the people who felt it was unbearable to read to the end), but also to put polls in the middle chapters when they weren't intended as such. I was thinking that, should I go back and do it, that maybe something simple like "I like it so far"/"I scrolled down just to tell you it sucked" might work there.
no subject
This is another limitation of being the only person doing this, because I've only done it for oneshot fics and one chapter of a WIP that I haven't worked on since my hard drive crashed. If and when I write something longer, I'll definitely keep this in mind, but that might never happen...